Saturday, June 7, 2008

A debate on Facebook.

This week I went a group of profession Christians to see what people where talking about. A topic title is "Chew on this theory...." and it is about once saved always saved. The person that started the post does not believe in any assurance of salvation so I choose to step in and debate the issue. After I had use the verses I know that would prove that he was not correct in his theology. My next step was to research the verses the others used and see if they are in context of the Bible. I found out that there not is context. The next part is the clarification of 2 verses that were used. This is a longer post.

Chew on this theory....

I have studied this topic of once saved always. Using what I already know, sermons by Dr. MacArthur (gty.org) and Dr. Piper (desiringgod.org), and a book called “Way of the Master” by Ray Comfort. I ask that you pray before you continue reading for God to help you discern/judge what I am saying. All verses that do not have the initials behind are from the English Standard Version (ESV).

I am going to first example why the verses you used are incorrect and using hermeneutics and different sermons try to find the correct meaning.
The first verse I grabbed was Galatians 5:3-4; “I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” In the beginning of verse 3, Paul said that he was testifying again. What is Paul testifying again? He is testifying verse 2, “Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.” Paul made the effort to say that if you must obey one part of the law you must follow the whole law. The problem that Paul is addressing was legalism that the Judaizers were brought into the church at Galatia.

John Piper (desiringgod.org) says “The problem with the Judaizers was that they wanted to cash in on Christ's profit, but only by making investments with him from their own moral assets. And Paul says that if you try to earn dividends from Christ from your own investment of circumcision or dietary rules or feast days, Christ will profit you nothing. Why? Because all the spiritual and physical benefits Christ gives are dividends paid from his own investment at Calvary. When the Son of God died for our sins, the moral assets which he invested in the bank of God's glory were so great that the dividends are infinite, endless, and available to all who . . . who what? Verse 2 says: Christ's profits are not yours if you try to earn them with your own investments. Why? Because that dishonors Christ, nullifies grace (2:21), and removes the stumbling block of the cross (5:11). We exalt the cross and grace and Christ when we admit we have no assets to invest, and that Christ's investment at Calvary was totally sufficient to win free dividends of righteousness and life for all who trust him. So verse 2 teaches that slavery is when you reject Christ as the merciful benefactor who gives us freely a share in his endless profit. Slavery is when you choose to deal with him as a banker who needs your investment to produce dividends for his customers.”

Paul continues to say that the legalism would “severed” (ESV) or “is become of no effect unto you” (KJV). Both words in this case means “of separation” and the Greek word is “apo” (Blueletterbible.org). So the people that believe in legalism are separated from Jesus. This separation from Jesus requires them to meet the requirements of the law, the same law that Jesus over came at Calvary. The law must justify them on judgment day and this is why they no longer had grace. Paul says is Romans 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.” In other words, if I have to fulfill the law, I am no longer under God’s covenant of grace.

Hebrews 6:4-6 says, “For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”

John MacArthur sermon series called “ The Tragedy of Rejecting Full Revlation” talks about Hebrews 5:11-6:12. In the second part of the series, is about 6:1-8. When Dr. MacArthur writes about verses 4-6, he says:
“This is a very serious warning, and the warning is simply this. You had better come to Christ; for, if you fall away, it will be impossible to renew you again to the point where you've repented...That's the issue. Now, some people say it proves you can lose your salvation; but as I've been saying all along, it's not even talking to Christians at all here. In fact, those brothers in Christ who would teach us that it proves you can lose your salvation have got some real problems. Because if that teaches you can lose it, it also teaches you can't get it back again; 'cause it says, "If you fall away, it is impossible to renew you to repentance.
So I daresay you would not wanna assign this to believers who could lose their salvation. For once lost, would be damned forever if interpreted that way. So we must, in the context, see that he's talking to these on the...on the verge of commitment to Christ; and let me say that there is no need for the believer ever to fear that he'll lose his salvation. None at all. The Bible is so absolutely clear about that. John chapter 10 comes to mind, and verse 27. "My sheep hear My voice. I know them. They follow Me. I give unto them eternal life. They shall never perish. Neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. My Father, who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one." Now you try to get anybody out of that... " (gty.org)


Hebrews 5-11-6:12 is talking about Jews who know about Christ but yet still cling to the Jewish religion and will not abandoned their religion to follow Christ and be saved. In today’s world, it would be someone who goes to church and never repented and believe in Christ. He knows about Christ but has not accepted the teachings.

I am going to stop here with showing you the context of the verses you use because I feel that going continuing might hurt someone. Looking at what Dr. MacArthur wrote, I seem clear for me that I can have assurance in my salvation and that is what this debate is about. The problem that had showed up on other side of the debate was the difference of salvation by grace and salvation by works. Robby, Danielle and, Robert, based on what you wrote, all of you believe in a salvation by works. I must work to continue to remain in God. The problem with that is that all works are like dirty garments. Isaiah wrote in chapter 64 verse 6, “We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.” So according to God’s Holy word, no matter what I do, I cannot save myself. Paul writes in Galatians 2:16, “yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.” Also, God knows the intention of my heart and all of it is evil. God will judge us on his moral law, a moral law that no one has kept because of our sinful nature from birth. That moral law is the 10 commandments (Matthew 5:17-37) and all of our deeds will be judged based on that law. The only person in history who has kept the 10 commandments was Jesus Christ. God used his son, Jesus, to save our souls but making his own Son sin for us. The Bible says that we must repent (Luke 13:1-5) and believe (Acts 16:31-34) in Jesus to be saved.

My heart goes out at all because of the seriousness of the difference of salvation. Paul wrote in 2 Cor. 5:3-4 “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,” That is the message I give to you today. Repent and believe in the one that can save you.


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Listening to: Casting Crowns - Love Them Like Jesus
via FoxyTunes

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Listening to: The Joslin Grove Choral Society - Softly And Tenderly
via FoxyTunes

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